Curse

Nocens Imperceptus · Nov 12, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogmanstar

I filled out two complaints to NCsoft about new AOE update... the update turned the best game ever to ridiculous pile of crap... i dont see team work in my teams anymore everybdoy runs around try to kill seperate monster... Monsters act like total idiots running around like chicken with heads cut off every single time they take damage... I spend over 700 hours playing that game and trying to perfect my characters... NCsoft with one swift move cut off everything ive been working on... why wouold anyone do something like that to us??? why would they? if they wont reverse that update i can probably play for only like two more days... and then i will have to quit cause i basically hate that game right now... Please NCsoft give us our game back !!! I will pay monthly subscribtion I will buy 2nd account I will buy 2nd chapter!! just bring all back to normal... let me play!

I believe you have a bit of an addiction to that game....
Have ya herd of EQ? your looking the same way people from there look.

Owen · Nov 12, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

The main problem with the update is NOT that enemies run from AoE the problem is that stupid hench tanks chase them and aggro additional mobs. There are parts of the game where this simply will not do and thus AoE has been made completely useless in those areas.

Monsters should run from DOT AoE, it just makes sense that they would, but this is a HUGE change to come along this late in the games evolution and I think that in many ways all the possible situations that would result were not considered when implementing it. I can live with monsters running from AoE because in my experience playing under this update AoE still has it's uses but henchmen simply need to be made smarter in light of the fact that enemies now flee from the areas being effected.

In the end though the community is to blame for this update and that's why I voted that I don't like the update but will live with it. Apparently farming by the invinci-monks and W/Mo axers finally reached critical mass and ANet had no other recourse and I can't fault them for that. Next time you see a 55 monk make sure to thank him for effectively destroying the power of Pyromancers and legit Smiters because they're the ones who caused this, ANet didn't do it just for the fun of screwing us over.

Crotalus · Nov 12, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torment

Well, thanks for that. But the PvP is very limited as well. There are many combinations for a team in PvP and so on and so forth. But if you enjoy the PvE the farming is a way to keep playing while waiting for GW2 and PvP gets old after awhile.

So i guess it is fair to say that both PvP and PvE has a very limited experience in Guild Wars.

I guess i am glad i didn't rush through the content and play it like any other mmorpg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen

In the end though the community is to blame for this update and that's why I voted that I don't like the update but will live with it. Apparently farming by the invinci-monks and W/Mo axers finally reached critical mass and ANet had no other recourse and I can't fault them for that. Next time you see a 55 monk make sure to thank him for effectively destroying the power of Pyromancers and legit Smiters because they're the ones who caused this, ANet didn't do it just for the fun of screwing us over.

Well said and so very true. I am quite sure ArenaNet didnt intend the hardest parts of the game to be solo farmed with an invinci-monks or W/Mo Axers. This was the only recourse.

Helios · Nov 12, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I'm not going to read all 12 pages of this but I will say this:
Back when Guild Wars was first released this was the pattern.
1) Update comes out on Wednesday
2) Everyone hates update
3) Everyone adjusts to update
4) Go back to #1
The point is that most people do not give the update time to sink in. I say give it a chance and if after a week, you're still not satisfied, voice your opinion, write ANet an email, or quit. I admit, I hated the update as soon as it came out, but after messing with skills for a hour, I found a farming build that worked better than my previous one that used AoE's.
Everyone just needs to chill out, be a little patient, and think outside the box.

Omega_2005 · Nov 12, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Another idea upon the slightly messed up AoE build.

At low-mid range levels, the monsters must NOT instantly run away at free will to annoy many players using AoE/Smite skills. At high or extreme levels however, I think the skill should take A FEW SECONDS until the enemies move away and regroup, rather than im-flaming-mediately.

This could make the game slightly more balanced, but until then, I may be unable to play normally as I was doing a few days back.

Ileania · Nov 12, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I think overall this was a good patch but something that will take time to get used to. There is some flaws just as with any patch, but Im sure those will be fixed soon enough. I did 4 missions since then and we brought an ele everytime. Nuking still works guys u just have to figure out what creatures run and which dont. There is also the use of slowing abilities, they cant get out if they cant move out!

Use your heads guys.... you got too used to STUPID AI that likes to be killed.... take on this as a challenge!
ty for the poll

Vhayr · Nov 12, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I like it. Soloing in the desert is easier now, I don't die as much

. Plus, for some reason, I enjoy it more, the fact that it takes longer. Makes me feel better about doing it.

I love how some people are like "OMGZ LOLZ UR SOLIO MUNKEY CA'TN FARM NOMORE ROFLZ!!!!11!!?#seventyeleven", when in actual fact, yes, we can. I've made 30k today so far, and I was being lazy about it. I think I found about seven or eight golds and well over twenty purples. That's me, "not being able to farm any more". I also like the new AI of the Henchmen.

Everything seems a little more dynamic now, no more battles where the enemies stand in one spot while the Nukers stand in another. It a whole lot more exciting than it was before.

Justeen · Nov 12, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

It seems TPTB are always doing some changes and as far as i can tell none have been too great

Akhilleus · Nov 12, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

OMGOMGOMG, people actually have to make thier own farming builds now, instead of following a no-skill cookie-cutter chinese farmer build that does nothing but oversaturate the game market and make previously rare aqusitions available to the poorest of the poor?
god help us all...

give me a break.
learn to adjust, any good farmer that actually earned the right to be called a "farmer" has the ability to adapt and create thier own build, and move on as before.
the only people this patch hampers are thos who are incapable of thinking for themselves, and are too lazy to try out new builds on thier own, thus reducing themselves to waiting untill little jimmy comes up with an excellent farm build after hours of testing and thinking and testing and rethinking untill he hits something revolutionary, and posts it on that website everyone goes too. in short, the only people this patch ruined the game for, are the ones who couldnt play it in the first place.
that having been said; the fact that in regular missions AOE is 100% usless, is substancially annoying; as monsters often not only outnumber you, but exceed you in power, and the onyl way to combate them en masse` is through AOE spells. THIS is something arena net should have thought of as a side-effect of the aoe nerf.

CyanKuruma · Nov 12, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Voted that I didn't like it.

Maybe oneday.. ANet will delete all the swords & axes and warriors will have to elarn new strategies too.

entropy · Nov 12, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Well I'm almost positive I'm quitting any type of PvE.

great job anet with your anti-farming, dictatorship rule over this mmo. The reason I bought this as a causal gamer is because ti was open ended in the sense that I could do a mission here and there and it only took around an hour. Now missions are total chaos, take longer, and more boring. So what if people feel the need to farm then they should be allowed to do it. They paid your $50 and should get what was advertised. Sure farmers can come up with new builds as its not that hard but the reason is why should they? Because anet didn't intend for farming to happen? did they really not think it was going to occur? It's an mmo and with anet changing the rules every so often so that we have to play the game the way they want us to play it well screw that. Aoe spells have been nerfed to death. Tons of bugs in the update. Gaile gray said they had "tested" this update. Well it shows that they are lazy and simply don't understand waht is needed. If you want to have a more challenging mission and you think this is how it should work then you are sadly mistaken. So what they run from aoe's. They are still easier to kill. Running creates crits OH YEAH I hit for 130 dmg on a centaur I feel special. Give me a break its chaos in the missions still. If they are gonna put an update in they had better work their ass of on it and try to get as many bugs out as possible before updating the game. Last thing is that I'm sad to see a game with so much potential just become worthless crap.

edit* btw I don't compromise

entropy · Nov 12, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyanKuruma

Voted that I didn't like it.

Maybe oneday.. ANet will delete all the swords & axes and warriors will have to elarn new strategies too.

agreed

Vhayr · Nov 12, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

OMGOMGOMG, people actually have to make thier own farming builds now, instead of following a no-skill cookie-cutter chinese farmer build that does nothing but oversaturate the game market and make previously rare aqusitions available to the poorest of the poor?
god help us all...

give me a break.
learn to adjust, any good farmer that actually earned the right to be called a "farmer" has the ability to adapt and create thier own build, and move on as before.
the only people this patch hampers are thos who are incapable of thinking for themselves, and are too lazy to try out new builds on thier own, thus reducing themselves to waiting untill little jimmy comes up with an excellent farm build after hours of testing and thinking and testing and rethinking untill he hits something revolutionary, and posts it on that website everyone goes too. in short, the only people this patch ruined the game for, are the ones who couldnt play it in the first place.
that having been said; the fact that in regular missions AOE is 100% usless, is substancially annoying; as monsters often not only outnumber you, but exceed you in power, and the onyl way to combate them en masse` is through AOE spells. THIS is something arena net should have thought of as a side-effect of the aoe nerf.

I agree with your views on the whole farming build thing. I was annoyed at first, but instead of quitting and wasting the 500 hours I've put into this game, I tried out a couple of things and it works just as well as it did before. The majority (not everyone, but the majority) of the people complaining are the farmers who "can't" farm any more, when all they need to do is think outside of the box. With a couple of minor changes you can be just as efficient as before, though maybe a little slower. At the end of the day, does five extra minutes really matter in this game?

Edit - Oh, and about the whole "missions are chaos" opinion posted by entropy, I must disagree. Missions and quests are fun now, and I feel much closer to my guildmates when we all survive an onslaught of psycho Smites and Coldfires. Those Aatxe that run away when we're trying to lure them on to our traps? It's exciting, the fact that we might have to actually work as a team for once.

master_ranger_matt · Nov 12, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

i think the aoe skills thing where they run should be changed, because they aren't that great in pvp because people are smart enough to run, and in rp now that they run they are alomst completley worthless....

Akhilleus · Nov 12, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyanKuruma

Voted that I didn't like it.

Maybe oneday.. ANet will delete all the swords & axes and warriors will have to elarn new strategies too.

and last time i checked, not every ele spell was an AOE, there are plenty of useful ones to toy aorund with.
and aoe still CAN be useful if you use it propperly.
one example is, if your team is getting overrun aoe can save your life.
another is cold-slowing AOE attacks when well-coordinated with fire AOE or earth knockdown aoe spells, can still do devastating damage en masse` AND keep the enemy in place.
but people dont want the coordination part; they onyl want to be able to go in and practically solo everything.
like i said previously elsewhere, all solo farming did was take the "multiplayer" out of "MMORPG."
and to those of you who wont compromise (on either side) i say that merely shows that you are unwilling to accept new things and try new ideas, and further proves that this patch did the right thing.
ill be the first to admit, anet didnt have to go all-out with aoe running, they could have given monsters a delay, but on the other hand, refusing to work with the patch simply shows that you lack the ability to do so. and for those of you to whom the preceedign statement applies, why do you play a game if you are unable to try it out, why play a game of you allow someone else to experiment every avanue of skill for you? you might as well hire someoen to sit at your computer and play for you, while you watch, its basically the same thing.
anyone who has the ability and willingess to adapt to this patch should have zero problem surviving in it, both financially, and literally (when facing monsters). this is not intended as a bash; merely a wake-up call, i can almost guerentee you the game will be far more entertaining when you take up the initiative.
that is all, Akh.

aron searle · Nov 12, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

give me a break.
learn to adjust, any good farmer that actually earned the right to be called a "farmer" has the ability to adapt and create thier own build, and move on as before.
the only people this patch hampers are thos who are incapable of thinking for themselves, and are too lazy to try out new builds on thier own, thus reducing themselves to waiting untill little jimmy comes up with an excellent farm build after hours of testing and thinking and testing and rethinking untill he hits something revolutionary, and posts it on that website everyone goes too. in short, the only people this patch ruined the game for, are the ones who couldnt play it in the first place.

the old farming build works fine, its just slower. And combined with several other adjustments, that yes were needed, its become slower with each update.

thats the point farming is now slower and more grindier, there are ways to adjust that work but its just not fun anymore.

Now dont get me wrong, there is merit in making the AI more intelligent. 400 out of 550 i have spent in teams, the other 150 was farming.

The problem is the PRICES, if you want FOW, or even for some 15k you have to farm, and farming is now more slow and boring becasue of this update (Also the amount of buggy behavior sucks)

Yes there are collectors weopons, and yes you dont need 15k, BUT I WANT IT

DO you want to know what would make me really happy

seriosly

really

**The ability to farm WITH TEAMS or do UW or do missions, and gold/drop wise for it to be worth it.**

That would make this game PERFECT for me, then farming really would be FUN AGAIN, but it wont happen because its been bought up again and again and nothing happens, i want it to happen because its an effective and FUN way to encourage teamplay rather than solo. (seriosly drops in groups really really really suck 30 hours in UW and not 1 ecto in teams).

(EDIT * Teamwise it could be more fun / BUT at the moment all the buggy behavior makes it easier but slower / and watching them ping pong is annoying)

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

As the discussion has gone almost entirely off topic, as to the market value of weapons and such, I felt a return would be appropriate.
I've pretty much read all of the postst here, I stopped when I read so many of each type(ie it's stupid for a monster to stand there and take hits*debatable, but that's not my point) I got bored and decided to make an ultimate post to respond to, without rehashing the same arguments every couple pages. Onto the reasons, notes below that....

Basically, the only backing this update has is for:
A. My nonfire ele can get into parties easier.
B. I always thought it was silly for monsters to stand there and take it.
(theoretical drive for monsters to be willing to sacrifice pain has been
argued, and is basically a moot point, either way)
C. People use it to farm.
(some acceptable reasons, and some non-acceptable{ebay} reasons.
For ebay alone it becomes inarguable)

The anti-patch people claim:
A. It disrupted any build that relied on even one out of eight skills being
an AoE.
B AI isn't necessarily more intelligent, even after the fix, sometimes things
run wild, Henchies are no longer as docile when they should be, or as
active when they should be.(True it was partially repaired, but still bad)
AI won't take 100+ damage in one hitand run away, but will on 1-3
seconds of any given ten second aoe at any damage level.
C. The spells that cause the AI to react as such, up untill now were
never complained about enough to re-evaluate and nerf as needed.
These spells themselves were rendered useless, not edited unto
themselves. So really, it's not a nerf, as that term has been defined
to me. It's an unfortunate side effect. If it were truely a matter of
fairness, the elementalists skills would have been nerfed in part for
equalization of power months ago.
D. (Refer to B in Pro's)"The words feral, wild, inhuman, brutal, insane,
cold-blooded, and bestial all apply to some or all adversaries for any
player in the RPG part of the game. Most of those definitions are
pretty blunt, and some even state, with no thought to consequences
and lacking intelligence or reason." This is the reason BPro and D-Con
are null points. It can be argued either way with effenciency
E. Original author internetguy"There is a major difference between PVP and PVE, in PVP: two high intelligent groups against each other with the same amount of members, in PVE, one high intelligent group (Human players) against low intelligent (AI) computer controlled, but in high quantity monsters. All of these kind of combinations create something call balance or fairness. The newest patch totally destroyed this concept."

In a nutshell, those are the pros and cons.
There were so many repeat posts of people that had not read(can't blame them at 50 some odd pages) before them. There are also some people that will "argue" by just repeating themselves.
If I missed something Pro, or Con, or got something wrong, message below or PM me. If I unintentionally quoted someone(exactly)from memory, I appologize.

There are other arguments, on either side, grow up, adapt, stop whining, but any post that says that is actually neutral. They do not back the post with any logic, they just say cope and deal, with varying degrees of maturity. The people that tell you how you should build your character belong to this group, as do the people that post only for, "I should have the coice".
Also omited are topic related, but off topic at the same time, other possible solutions to farming(of whatever variety)

Scaper · Nov 13, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

the old farming build works fine, its just slower. And combined with several other adjustments, that yes were needed, its become slower with each update.

thats the point farming is now slower and more grindier, there are ways to adjust that work but its just not fun anymore.

Now dont get me wrong, there is merit in making the AI more intelligent. 400 out of 550 i have spent in teams, the other 150 was farming.

The problem is the PRICES, if you want FOW, or even for some 15k you have to farm, and farming is now more slow and boring becasue of this update (Also the amount of buggy behavior sucks)

Yes there are collectors weopons, and yes you dont need 15k, BUT I WANT IT

DO you want to know what would make me really happy

seriosly

really

**The ability to farm WITH TEAMS or do UW or do missions, and gold/drop wise for it to be worth it.**

That would make this game PERFECT for me, then farming really would be FUN AGAIN, but it wont happen because its been bought up again and again and nothing happens, i want it to happen because its an effective and FUN way to encourage teamplay rather than solo. (seriosly drops in groups really really really suck 30 hours in UW and not 1 ecto in teams).

(EDIT * Teamwise it could be more fun / BUT at the moment all the buggy behavior makes it easier but slower / and watching them ping pong is annoying)

I don't think Anet understands the dynamic of what is called a,"build"! The purpose of a build is the give one job to one profession! that one job is usually done by the one profession IN A TEAM BUILD, because THEY ARE GOOD AT IT! This is why their are nice little nick names for certain builds, thats assuming you having been paying attention to anything we say.

For example: Before you mad THIS HORRIBLE PATCH!

1. Fire Ele with AoE spells: AKA Nukers becasue we could kill quickly and effectively
2. Warrior/mo with stancs and monk prot spells: AKA TANKS cause they can take MORE damage than ANY other build.
3. Healing/Prot MONKS: AKA, lol well, monks BECUASE they are the best and most effectice at it!

GET IT YET!? Some of the builds are good becuase YOU GUYS MADE THE GAME THAT WAY! Don't Blame the players because YOU GUYS ANET, or whoever is the techniqical designers are, made some BUILDS BETTER than OTEHRS. This is why they existed in the first place! BECAUSE SOME BUILDS ARE JUST BETTER THAN OTHERS! TOGETHER these builds become part of TEAM so as to be effective in ALL SENERIOS NOT JUST ONES THAT ARE FARMING BY THE WAY!

Hence, by destroying the effectiveness of AoE spells, which are just bascially include all the main effective builds of War Monks and ELE, you have destroy the term BUILD! CONGRAULATIONS! Build is incorporated into a TEAM of effective players. BY MAKING THIS PATCH you have destroyed the effectiveness of the best builds that we found out and YOU MADE THAT WAY! SO STOP BLAMING THE PLAYERS FOR MISTAKES ABOUT MAKING BUILDS TO POWERFUL! YOU GUYS at Anet and GW production MADE THEM THAT WAY!

WHAT are you thinking? Take away the most effective builds and other builds can some how MAGICALLY become part of a team? NO! YOU CANNOT SOLVE a problem with ANOTHER PROBLEM! By taking about AoE effectivnes your are creating a SERIOUS PROBLEM by destroying effective TEAM BUILDS! IF YOU ARE GOING TO DESTROY AoE builds then make something to help us replace it! Not just say YOU guys need to figure it out! NO your people in Anet and GW production should have figured this out! IF your going to make AoE obsolite then give then something to replace it by.

Heres some suggestions:

1. Make Beast more powerful for ranger build with more variety and better pets!
2. Make other ele abilites that are not AoE more powerful so we can compensate for the lack of AOE SPELLS!
3. Make War weapons more powerful becasue the AOE type of skills they had are now INEFFECTIVE!
4. Make Mes do some REAL dam instead of just hexing with low dam spells all day long!
5. Make necro abliteis more effective
6. Make the Monk a better healer because AoE smiting don't work any more thanks to you guys.

Bottom Line. YOU GUYS AT ANET and GW coroprations need to think of a solution to BALANCE out the SKILLS in other builds! BEFORE YOU GO MAKING OTHER BUILDS INEFFECTIVE! As I said in my first LONG QUOTE!

IF WE were a Police PRECINT! You have taken away our GUNS and replace them with BROOM STICKS! Well well be fine, NOT!

Sincerly, Scaper

Pandora's box · Nov 13, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

No, the thing Anet does not understand is that people who spent time in finding good working skill combinations expect to be rewarded, not punished. They hope for positive reactions, compliments, a little reward in items/gold/whatever... And than there's that reaction: sorry, this was not meant to be, drop it since its no longer working now. Thats deadly

Arianna Darkfire · Nov 13, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

I have been sitting here and reading for days and never sure what to say or think BUT I do know this a STANDING OVATION TO SCAPER and well put and thank you for putting it into words they all can read and understand. and btw I did read your first posting and found it to be very true and interesting Thank you Scaper